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All things Novel Coronavirus (2019-nCoV)

Bruce Monkhouse

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Do you really think military members will be put on LWOP before being released?

What do we do with the members in the shacks on rations that no longer have pay?
Isn't LWOP what they are saying right now??
 

dapaterson

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So... we're holding the public service to a higher standard than the CAF, then?
 

PuckChaser

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That's what happens when you make up crap on the fly without a cabinet to issue an OIC change to the QR&Os to allow members to be forced onto LWOP. It'll be interesting to see if they try that, seeing as how we paid Russell Williams while he was pending trial but because someone is "unclean" they'll get their pay cut.
 

hattrick72

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Isn't LWOP what they are saying right now??
The latest is they are looking into it, vaccination against COVID as a requirement for employment is a temporary measure, and right below that statement it says boosters may be a requirement and we will follow public health.

I think the document has everything everyone wants to read.
 

FJAG

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That's what happens when you make up crap on the fly without a cabinet to issue an OIC change to the QR&Os to allow members to be forced onto LWOP. It'll be interesting to see if they try that, seeing as how we paid Russell Williams while he was pending trial but because someone is "unclean" they'll get their pay cut.
You do not need an OIC to change a QR&O. Each of the Minister and Treasury Board can make and change regulations within their appropriate areas pursuant to s 12 of the NDA as limited by s 13. Pursuant to s 18(2) of the NDA, all orders and instructions to the CF are issued by or through the CDS. Together, these regulations and these orders are QR&Os.

Pursuant to QR&Os 1.13, which is an OiC, a fairly broad delegation of powers authority is given to the CDS.

I'm not about to go into a lengthy analysis of who has power to do what within DND vis-a-vis this issue (I'll leave that to DAP) but I'm pretty certain that these matters do not need an OiC to be valid. Legislatures and governments generally operate by delegation of powers to the appropriate departments.

🍻
 

MJP

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You do not need an OIC to change a QR&O. Each of the Minister and Treasury Board can make and change regulations within their appropriate areas pursuant to s 12 of the NDA as limited by s 13. Pursuant to s 18(2) of the NDA, all orders and instructions to the CF are issued by or through the CDS. Together, these regulations and these orders are QR&Os.

Pursuant to QR&Os 1.13, which is an OiC, a fairly broad delegation of powers authority is given to the CDS.

I'm not about to go into a lengthy analysis of who has power to do what within DND vis-a-vis this issue (I'll leave that to DAP) but I'm pretty certain that these matters do not need an OiC to be valid. Legislatures and governments generally operate by delegation of powers to the appropriate departments.wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

🍻
Stop it with the relevance instead of reaching....
 

Jarnhamar

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So... we're holding the public service to a higher standard than the CAF, then?
I believe so yes.

I don't think the CAF has the backbone to do it. They'll give themselves a backdoor.

I mean right now the only proof required is to input the dates you think you got your vaccination into monitormass. No requirement to upload a photocopy or scan of your needle book or any sort of proof.

I know a reserve csm who formed everyone up and asked who had their vaccination. Took names and then updated monitormass on everyone's behalf.
 

Remius

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I believe so yes.

I don't think the CAF has the backbone to do it. They'll give themselves a backdoor.

I mean right now the only proof required is to input the dates you think you got your vaccination into monitormass. No requirement to upload a photocopy or scan of your needle book or any sort of proof.

I know a reserve csm who formed everyone up and asked who had their vaccination. Took names and then updated monitormass on everyone's behalf.
The PS process isn’t much more sophisticated. It’s an attestation in TAP. So no proof either.
 

Jarnhamar

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A pinky promise verses LWOP or getting fired (civilian), quite the jump.

I'm not complaining, I don't really care. It's just mildly amusing I got away with promising this (which seems like a big deal) but had to provide proof in the form of a certificate that I took the DLN Aboriginal awareness course.
 

PuckChaser

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Stop it with the relevance instead of reaching....
If it was that easy, the CAF would have sorted it out with the CDS Directive issued last week. Or...

I don't think the CAF has the backbone to do it. They'll give themselves a backdoor.
Is it lack of backbone or realizing the direction to put people on LWOP is stupid and overly punitive? If we want to change the Medical Standard to require COVID-19 vaccination, do that. It makes complete sense, requires very little in the way of staff work to initiate but just means folks have to hang around while the PCATs are applied and ARs done.

Maybe the CAF will figure out a policy in May 2022 after Ontario has lifted all restrictions by end March 2022. Heck, I saw a PLQ course walking in single file with 5m patrol spacing outside wearing masks. The sheer idiocy of that direction doesn't instill a lot of confidence we're going to get anything right on this.
 
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mariomike

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So no proof either.
Proof of Vaccination seems like a YMMV thing, depending on employer.

The City of Toronto requires proof of vaccination from all employees. Proof means documentation verifying receipt of a vaccination series approved by Health Canada or the World Health Organization.
For a two dose vaccine series, employees must receive one dose of COVID-19 vaccine by September 30, 2021 and two doses of COVID-19 vaccine by October 30, 2021.
 

brihard

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The PS process isn’t much more sophisticated. It’s an attestation in TAP. So no proof either.
For now. My read of the policy suggests they intend to allow verification, but in order to meet the intended timeline, the approach is “trust but verify”.
 

Booter

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When all this first rolled out, like I mean Covid vaccines, I was looking after about 50 people- trying to get them in with public health etc to get their vaccinations. We were pretty excited to finally be eligible. So I had been asking everyone to include me in their emails to update their health records so I could track and make sure no one was missing out. I didn’t keep notes on people merely checked them off my lists.

It never even crossed my mind that it was all going to become this, and I was totally wrong to be included in their medical reporting. It was all good intentions- but my goodness the atmosphere changed fast.

Sorry for the derail. It’s just such strange times.
 

HiTechComms

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When all this first rolled out, like I mean Covid vaccines, I was looking after about 50 people- trying to get them in with public health etc to get their vaccinations. We were pretty excited to finally be eligible. So I had been asking everyone to include me in their emails to update their health records so I could track and make sure no one was missing out. I didn’t keep notes on people merely checked them off my lists.

It never even crossed my mind that it was all going to become this, and I was totally wrong to be included in their medical reporting. It was all good intentions- but my goodness the atmosphere changed fast.

Sorry for the derail. It’s just such strange times.
You broke some ethical and moral boundaries.

I had a request from Gov of Sask through my employer about a software app for passport. Having worked with several health authorities I know the legal nightmare they are. I said sure we can do it as and we can discuss it as long as the gov provides indemnity contracts in regards to health record knowledge. That pretty well much ended the conversation right there and than. No I will not do jumping jacks in a mine field for no amount of money.

IMHO no one should know your medical status except your doctor or possibly a nurse as it pertains to my personhood. Although I am ok with Vaccine I am not ok with giving that status to any one and if that means I cannot participate in society because I have no pass then so be it. It doesn't bother me because I rather stay home and save money anyway :p hehe.

Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
 
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Bruce Monkhouse

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IMHO no one should know your medical status except your doctor or possibly a nurse.

Road to hell is paved with good intentions.
:rolleyes:

Hey everyone, I have a fake hip and the arthritis wants my knee next.




Crap, I wanted everyone to go to hell......
 

Remius

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All I know is that we are slowly getting out of this. Ontario has a long term plan to ease all restrictions.

This is thanks to all those working hard and doing their part.

Anti vaxxers, conspiracy nuts and people who can’t follow simple rule had no part in this success. They are all on the wrong side of history and can stay locked up in their caves for all I care until this done.
 

HiTechComms

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:rolleyes:

Hey everyone, I have a fake hip and the arthritis wants my knee next.




Crap, I wanted everyone to go to hell......
If you want to share you med info that is your prerogative. I simply don't want to share mine. That's what I mean.

Oh have you ever had a STD and what was it? :rolleyes:
 
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