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Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

Humphrey Bogart

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SupersonicMax said:
I am for the removal of checking in kids sports.  When it is your child laying on the ice, suffering a concussion, you’ll understand.

Maybe or maybe not.  My father played junior hockey and filled the role of "enforcer" for a number of different junior clubs.  He always encouraged me to finish my hits and play physically. 

I've got plenty of injuries from both ice hockey and rugby to back it up and I'm more than certain that combined with military service it will lead to some chronic pain problems down the road. 

The problem with removing hitting from a competitive sport like hockey is checking is a fundamental component of the professional game. You don't check, you have no pipeline producing professional players. 

Learning checking too late is bad because kids learn bad habits i.e. skating with your head down, cutting inside across open ice, not using the boards to your advantage.  I was a defenceman and used to love catching forwards trying to cut inside when I was playing competitively. 

Bottom line, if you just want to play hockey for fun, join a league that is non-contact.  If you want to play competitively though, with an eye to trying to go as far as you can in the sport, you need to learn to check and you need to learn young because the two games are fundamentally different and it's hard to break bad habits once they start.


 

SupersonicMax

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You should really let kids play like kids. Until a time when they show potential.  We were checking starting at Pee-Wee when I was a kid and there is no way in hell you can accurately screen people for potential to NHL at that level.  Some may be better than others but how many actually make it?  Let kids be kids, remove that pressure of performing for a chance at the NHL and when the time comes (Midget in my mind), separate those with potential and introduce checking.  After you get caught head down 2-3 times, you’ll learn quickly.  There is absolutely no need to subject our youngs to an activity that has potential to have long lasting impacts at that early age.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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SupersonicMax said:
You should really let kids play like kids. Until a time when they show potential.  We were checking starting at Pee-Wee when I was a kid and there is no way in hell you can accurately screen people for potential to NHL at that level.  Some may be better than others but how many actually make it?  Let kids be kids, remove that pressure of performing for a chance at the NHL and when the time comes (Midget in my mind), separate those with potential and introduce checking.  After you get caught head down 2-3 times, you’ll learn quickly.  There is absolutely no need to subject our youngs to an activity that has potential to have long lasting impacts at that early age.

I started checking at 11 which was my first year of Pee Wee hockey as well. 

There are advantages to teaching checking earlier.  One is that the kids are usually too small to seriously hurt each other.  The other is the development of muscle memory. 

I can tell you from coaching rugby at U17 and U19 level that I always felt far better about coaching a kid who had come up through our clubs juniors system and been taught the finer points of tackling and taking the ball in to contact earlier than I did when the kid who was 17 and had just picked up rugby at High School and decided he was going to try his hand at club rugby. 

 

cld617

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The benefits of introducing concussion causing actions in sport with young children pale in comparison to the dangers such brain trauma has on young developing minds.  The mental gymnastics justifying these actions for their benefit of a learning tool is ridiculous, and dismissing their known dangers because one thinks an 11 year old benefits from brain trauma is also ridiculous. As our understanding of brain trauma increases it's become more and more apparent how dangerous mild head trauma is.
 

Quirky

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CTD said:
I know when I was fixing CF18's the Maintainers did not have time during the working day to take a hour to excercise. We barely had the manpower to keep the jets flying. I hear it is even worse now. Trying to convince the boss I need my 1 hour of fitness time everyday, because of that time your jet wont jet ready until tomorrow doesnt fly. Especially in operational units that actually work at their job every day.

Luckily for Cold Lake, there is so little to do off-duty, especially in the winter, that the guys/gals that were into fitness regularly worked out on their own time. I was at two first-line units during my stint there, one had morning PT for snags/office jobs and the other brought PSP staff into the hangar. It all depends on the CO and how receptive the CoC is in general to fitness. One thing I will mention is not once did I ever see a pilot come to unit PT, besides the odd CO appearance. I realize they have their morning briefs or whatnot, but to see a hornet driver in a gym in general was a rare sight.
 

MJP

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Humphrey Bogart said:
I started checking at 11 which was my first year of Pee Wee hockey as well. 

There are advantages to teaching checking earlier.  One is that the kids are usually too small to seriously hurt each other.  The other is the development of muscle memory. 

I can tell you from coaching rugby at U17 and U19 level that I always felt far better about coaching a kid who had come up through our clubs juniors system and been taught the finer points of tackling and taking the ball in to contact earlier than I did when the kid who was 17 and had just picked up rugby at High School and decided he was going to try his hand at club rugby.

Checking starts in bantam now and only for the top tiers (at least for Alberta but I feel that is a Hockey Canada thing) which is the right call IMHO.  Kids who want to just play can continue down that route and those that can play at a higher level do so.  One of the things they did away with that I don't agree with was the requirement to do a checking clinic.  Now kids enter the checking level tiers essentially not knowing how to check but more importantly how to take a check.

Anecdotal story, a kid my son played with last year was skilled but a little on the small side and suffered two concussions last year and is no longer playing hockey.  Part of the reason he got at least one of them, is because he was small he shied away from contact and often set himself up for a worse hit. His last concussion was him turning his back to get away from a check, defender actually let up seeing the back but still knocked him into the boards almost head first.  If he had closed up on the defender and pressed himself into the boards (he was dumping the puck) then likely be wouldn't have suffered a concussion on the play.

Like you said teaching kids how to give and take checks/contact in any sport is crucial.  I am happy that not all tiers in hockey are checking because at the end of the day I rather kids leave sports with a life long passion for staying physically fit! 

*Edited because mobile typing combined with leave beers makes for interesting grammar and spelling.
 

daftandbarmy

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MJP said:
A kid my son played with last year was skilled but a little on the small side and suffered two concussions last year and is no longer playing hockey. 

In the Parachute Regiment, that's a mandatory medical condition :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR2ZARY6SoE
 

MJP

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daftandbarmy said:
In the Parachute Regiment, that's a mandatory medical condition :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YR2ZARY6SoE

Skilled but small ;)
 

Humphrey Bogart

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MJP said:
Checking starts in bantam now and only for the top tiers (at least for Alberta but I feel that is a Hockey Canada thing) which is the right call IMHO.  Kids who want to just play can continue down that route and those that can play at a higher level do so.  One of the things they did away with that I don't agree with was the requirement to do a checking clinic.  Now kids enter the checking level tiers essentially not knowing how to check but more importantly how to take a check.

Anecdotal story, a kid my son played with last year was skilled but a little on the small side and suffered two concussions last year and is no longer playing hockey.  Part of the reason he got at least one of them, is because he was small he shied away from contact and often set himself up for a worse hit. His last concussion was him turning his back to get away from a check, defender actually let up seeing the back but still knocked him into the boards almost head first.  If he had closed up on the defender and pressed himself into the boards (he was dumping the puck) then likely be wouldn't have suffered a concussion on the play.

Like you said teaching kids how to give and take checks/contact in any sport is crucial.  I am happy that not all tiers in hockey are checking because at the end of the day I rather kids leave sports with a life long passion for staying physically fit! 

*Edited because mobile typing combined with leave beers makes for interesting grammar and spelling.

I agree which is why I said kids should be able to play house league hockey if they don't want to play contact hockey.

Hitting is a fundamental part of competitive hockey and if you remove it, you may as well not play competitively.  A player may be "skilled" but they better change their game up if there is hitting involved. 

Lets be honest though, if they wanted to make hockey safer, they would bring back the Two-Line Pass Rule and Clutching and Grabbing to slow the game down.  Funny how attempts to make the game "more exciting" and "better for the skilled players" also makes it more dangerous.

The game isn't any more skilled, I find the new NHL incredibly boring.  It's the same dump and chase it's just a player stands at the far blue line now and tips in a pass.

Wow we drifted off topic! 
 

ballz

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SupersonicMax said:
You should really let kids play like kids.

If we let kids play like kids, there would be body contact from the time they are toddlers swinging a stick around in the living room. That's what kids do and adults have somewhat flipped that upside down.

SupersonicMax said:
Until a time when they show potential.  We were checking starting at Pee-Wee when I was a kid and there is no way in hell you can accurately screen people for potential to NHL at that level.  Some may be better than others but how many actually make it?  Let kids be kids, remove that pressure of performing for a chance at the NHL and when the time comes (Midget in my mind), separate those with potential and introduce checking.  After you get caught head down 2-3 times, you’ll learn quickly.  There is absolutely no need to subject our youngs to an activity that has potential to have long lasting impacts at that early age.

If you start body contact that late, 15 years old, the talented 15 year old kid is going to get murdered by a 17 year old which is has a significant size, strength, speed, and overall athletic ability (Midget is still ages 15-17 right? Been out of the game for 12 years). There'd be a lot players, good and bad, that eat it.

I was that kid laying on the ice with a concussion. Didn't change my Dad's perspective nor mine. Always have believed body contact should start younger while kids are too small, slow, and bendy to do real damage to each other. If you wait unitl Midget, you've got 130 lb 15 year olds out on the same ice as a 200 lb kid old enough to join the CAF as a reg force combat arms who's already been body checking for 2 full seasons, and the 15 year old has never played with body contact before.

I really don't see the issue with having hockey just be hockey and if you don't like contact, play another sport. I've never heard of anyone complaining that they should have non-contact Judo for kids who just want to do Judo but not get thrown.
 

Ahmedsaid50

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Hello everyone,

I'm new to this website. I applied to the CF few month ago and in the security screening for about a month now. I have few questions for the min. physical requirments.

How many situps, push ups, pullups ..etc. are required?

For swiming,
I am learning how to swim now. I can tread water for around a min. and working on improving it.  If anyone can shed some light on what type of swiming is required the most? E.g. front crawl, backstroke..etc. I am good now in front crawl and working to improve the backstroke and endurance.

Also how many meters are required to swim? I read a lot of different numbers. Like swimming 20 meters, 50 m and 65 m.

I am struggling to find a gym or place with sandbags to train for the Force evaluation. I'm using dumbbells. Is it possible to join the PSP in Toronto or it is only for staff members?

Can I take the Force evaluation before going to the basic training?

Your answers will help me a lot. I know these questions have been addressed so many times but what I found were answers from many years ago. This may have changed now.

Thank you in advance for your help.
 

mariomike

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Ahmedsaid50 said:
If anyone can shed some light on what type of swiming is required the most?

For swimming questions,

Military Swim Test - When, Where, and How- Merged 
https://army.ca/forums/threads/17795.300.html
13 pages.

 

Eye In The Sky

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Most of what you're looking for is located on the link below, including more detailed info & videos on the FORCE test:

http://forces.ca/en/how-to-join/#btt

Swimming

The military swim standard is a key element of basic training. This test involves jumping into a pool wearing a life jacket and swimming 50 metres. You must also somersault into the water without a life jacket, tread water for two minutes and then swim 20 metres.

Physical fitness evaluation

During the first week of basic training, you will take the FORCE Evaluation fitness test to assess your level of physical fitness. You must pass this test in order to continue with basic training.

If you do not meet all four of the fitness test objectives but can meet one or more, you may be able to take additional training as part of the Program to Return to Training at the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School. You will have a maximum of 90 days to meet all three of the test objectives.

If you are unsuccessful in meeting the four FORCE Evaluation fitness test objectives at the end of the 90 days, you will be released from the CAF.

Before starting basic training, you should be able to:

•run five kilometres
•run 2.4 kilometres within an appropriate time (see chart)
•complete push-ups with a full range of motion and sit-ups
•complete a hand-grip test
•tread water for at least two minutes and swim 20 metres without a life jacket

 

Ahmedsaid50

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Thanks for the replies.

Eye in the sky, Thank you for the link for the forces.ca website. I checked this link before but it gives general info no details. I'm just trying to do my research for better practicing.




 

Eye In The Sky

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The FORCE test is the evaluation you'll undergo once arriving at BMQ.  The details on that are all found on that page.  Situps, etc are no longer a part of the test.

https://www.cfmws.com/en/AboutUs/PSP/DFIT/Fitness/FORCEprogram/Pages/FORCE_videos.aspx
 

Ahmedsaid50

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Thank you. As I mentioned I read and heard a lot about the situps and the push ups. I think it was old information. I will keep training. It will keep me in a good shape anyways.
 

Eye In The Sky

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I'm sure there will be pushups, situps and other exercises and activities during BMQ  ;D, but just wanted you to understand they are not part of the formal physical fitness evaluation any more.

Good luck!
 

Pusser

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cld617 said:
The benefits of introducing concussion causing actions in sport with young children pale in comparison to the dangers such brain trauma has on young developing minds.  The mental gymnastics justifying these actions for their benefit of a learning tool is ridiculous, and dismissing their known dangers because one thinks an 11 year old benefits from brain trauma is also ridiculous. As our understanding of brain trauma increases it's become more and more apparent how dangerous mild head trauma is.

No one is suggesting we practice getting concussions.  THAT is ridiculous.  However, what folks are saying is that proper training is crucial to avoiding concussions.  Remember that we play these games for fun. The thrill, the adrenaline rush, the challenge and the "danger" are all part of what make them fun.  I was gutted as a 10 year old when they told me I could no longer body-check in hockey.  By the time I was allowed to do it again, I'd lost all my skills and I lost interest.  It took be 24 years to get back into non-contact hockey.  I can't help but think that instead of banning checking, they would have done us a lot more good by training us properly.  My rugby experience certainly attests to this.  I spent 25 seasons in the front row with no concussions and  the number of times I've had to leave the field for injury in those 25 seasons can be counted on one hand.  Training and fitness are key.
 
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