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Veterans Affairs says worker ‘inappropriately’ discussed medically assisted death with veteran

Halifax Tar

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Oh for sure. I agree with your premise.

But my parents never had to worry about LTC for their parents. The men died young in their 50s mostly. The women in their 80s but always had family looking after them.

My (our) generation is looking at now dealing with a broken system and doesn’t have the same family support network that existed back then.

There are creative ways to help though and I hope they get looked into. Tax credits, leave options and training for family members etc etc. Some of it would be easy to implement.

Why do the elderly have to go into an LTC ? Why aren't people taking their parents in ?

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Life expectancy for men hasn't been 50 since sometime before 1920.

I am not sure we can fix the system. We might be best to go to a hybrid public/private model or weather the storm until Boomers impact is no more.

As for VAC advising a PTSD afflicted VET to think about MAID, that individual should be fired; and the organization investigated to ensure this isn't pervasive throughout. But I don't think you can blame the government for this.
 

rmc_wannabe

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Oh for sure. I agree with your premise.

But my parents never had to worry about LTC for their parents. The men died young in their 50s mostly. The women in their 80s but always had family looking after them.

My (our) generation is looking at now dealing with a broken system and doesn’t have the same family support network that existed back then.

There are creative ways to help though and I hope they get looked into. Tax credits, leave options and training for family members etc etc. Some of it would be easy to implement.
I also think that the amount of Millennials/Gen X that have come to terms with "parental divorce" is also something that is putting a lot of the Boomers in an uneasy position. A lot of people in my generational cohort (myself included) have distanced or cut ties with our parents due to strained relationships.

I would love to see the statistics on it, but anecdotally, my wife and I both, along iwth a large percentage of our friends moved far away from home to get away from our parents. We don't see our folks, talk to our folks, nor do we feel a responsibility to care for aging parents. We often have a hard time looking after our own lives, let alone caring for aging parents. Hell a lot of my peers are just waiting for their parents to die so they can inherit their parent's real estate holdings.

Instead, you better believe governments will be pushed to foot the bill. Both by the boomers who are still alive to vote for it, as well as their kids.
 

Remius

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Why do the elderly have to go into an LTC ? Why aren't people taking their parents in ?

View attachment 72596

Life expectancy for men hasn't been 50 since sometime before 1920.

I am not sure we can fix the system. We might be best to go to a hybrid public/private model or weather the storm until Boomers impact is no more.

As for VAC advising a PTSD afflicted VET to think about MAID, that individual should be fired; and the organization investigated to ensure this isn't pervasive throughout. But I don't think you can blame the government for this.
That’s why brought up some creative ways to enable taking their parents in. Right now it’s next to impossible for some. That’s why they can’t take their parents in. We tried to have my father in law stay in home and it would have killed him and his wife without 24hour care in house.
 

Good2Golf

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Fair!

Especially fair that it was my generation that worshipped at the alter of Pierre Trudeau and thought that the Canada Health Act was, in some, in any way, a useful bit of policy.
That and the Indian Act, which survives to this day…sorry, was daydreaming off-topic about pulling down statues of PET and renaming any school, airport, community centre or sports centre with PET’s name on it….

Back on topic, one can’t help believing that where there is smoke, there may be fire. I bet the VAC employee wasn’t ad-lib’ing the bit about MAID, if not at least misunderstanding the potential message from higher…probably why VAC isn’t throwing them under the bus…yet…
 

Remius

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That and the Indian Act, which survives to this day…sorry, was daydreaming off-topic about pulling down statues of PET and renaming any school, airport, community centre or sports centre with PET’s name on it….

Back on topic, one can’t help believing that where there is smoke, there may be fire. I bet the VAC employee wasn’t ad-lib’ing the bit about MAID, if not at least misunderstanding the potential message from higher…probably why VAC isn’t throwing them under the bus…yet…


You’d be surprised (or not) what untrained inexperiences do agents of the government will say and do to Joe public who might not know enough about anything.

When I worked in recruiting there were a few recruiters that needed remedial training or one way conversations based on their ad lib.
 

daftandbarmy

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That and the Indian Act, which survives to this day…sorry, was daydreaming off-topic about pulling down statues of PET and renaming any school, airport, community centre or sports centre with PET’s name on it….

Back on topic, one can’t help believing that where there is smoke, there may be fire. I bet the VAC employee wasn’t ad-lib’ing the bit about MAID, if not at least misunderstanding the potential message from higher…probably why VAC isn’t throwing them under the bus…yet…

And it's probably just not a (very wierd and distressing) thing being suggested by only one VAC employee. Apparently, the only reason we know about this case is because a veteran complained several times.
 

The Bread Guy

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... In that generation’s defence though what was the expected life expectancy vs now. How many elderly lived and died in the family home with family vs LTCs or assisted living ...
This is true only depending on how far back you go. Thirty years ago, I was talking to people about why there were long waiting lists for LTC beds, and (as always, I stand to be corrected) I suspect life expectancy hasn't risen enough between then and now to make a difference. What could be making a bigger difference (or another factor affecting the population) is a probably lower birth rate, leaving a larger ratio of folks needing extra help.
 

The Bread Guy

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Why do the elderly have to go into an LTC ? Why aren't people taking their parents in ?
My guess: families scattered across hell's half acre (both across Canada and in many cases around the world).

Also, a lack of culture of generally living multi-generationally compared to other places in the world.
 

rmc_wannabe

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My guess: families scattered across hell's half acre (both across Canada and in many cases around the world).
Yep. Globalization has made us far less community oriented. People go where the money is, with relative ease comparatively to other generations.

Also, a lack of culture of generally living multi-generationally compared to other places in the world.
Also a lack of obligation/desire to live multigenerationally.

My parents were horribly abusive in the way they parented. I have no desire to see them help "raise" my kids in the manner they "raised" me; let alone have them live in proximity. A lot of Millennials/Gen X are going through therapy for c-PTSD, and not just "my parents yelled at me...wahhhh." Those of us who are healing those wounds aren't exactly jumping for joy at inviting their abusers into their homes, just because they need a place to ride out their last few years.
 

The Bread Guy

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... I bet the VAC employee wasn’t ad-lib’ing the bit about MAID, if not at least misunderstanding the potential message from higher…probably why VAC isn’t throwing them under the bus…yet…
While VAC hasn't impressed me generally, I'm not as pessimistic that it's a "system" thing.

Then again, a $5 ATIP request, properly worded, could always prove ... intriguing ;)
 

Navy_Pete

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Just wow...

I think MAID makes a lot of sense in certain cases, but should be a personall choice, and never suggested by someone outside the medical support team. There is also some pretty strict limitations around eligibility for it to prevent cases specifically like this. Hopefully that employee gets fired.

If anyone is curious you can read about eligibility at the link below, but it actually specifically excluded mental illness on it's own as part of that.;

Medical assistance in dying - Canada.ca
 

mariomike

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The fact is that we have an ageing population that are living longer. Our lifespans are growing. People living well into their 80s and 90s is becoming a norm and not an anomaly and it needs to be adressed.

My mother is 90 and still enjoys her gardening etc.

This was predicted back in 2009.

 

Humphrey Bogart

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I think you're being a bit disingenuous. I haven't seen any calls for shipping the elderly off to the ice flows.

I also see no issue with MAID, and I have an uncle who did so at the end of his battle with Lou Gehrig's disease. But it needs to be a solution the patient desires, not the institution.

The irony for me WRT our elderly complaining about our health care system is that its you folks who were the ones who had the ability to set us up for success now and you didn't. So here we are.
Why do the elderly have to go into an LTC ? Why aren't people taking their parents in ?

View attachment 72596

Life expectancy for men hasn't been 50 since sometime before 1920.

I am not sure we can fix the system. We might be best to go to a hybrid public/private model or weather the storm until Boomers impact is no more.

As for VAC advising a PTSD afflicted VET to think about MAID, that individual should be fired; and the organization investigated to ensure this isn't pervasive throughout. But I don't think you can blame the government for this.
A great couple of posts. IMO the thing people seem to be ignoring is that there is an element of personal responsibility in all of this.

It's not my responsibility to pay for your care when you get old, it's your responsibility and that of your estate.

If you spent like a drunken sailor your entire life, didn't plan and didn't put any away for the inevitable day when you needed to pay for someone to wipe your rear, how is that all of a sudden my problem to fix?

As for the VAC employee in question, we all know of people we have worked with who are absolute morons and probably shouldn't be filling that role. I doubt anything will happen to the employee though, it's a Government job after all 😄.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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I also think that the amount of Millennials/Gen X that have come to terms with "parental divorce" is also something that is putting a lot of the Boomers in an uneasy position. A lot of people in my generational cohort (myself included) have distanced or cut ties with our parents due to strained relationships.

I would love to see the statistics on it, but anecdotally, my wife and I both, along iwth a large percentage of our friends moved far away from home to get away from our parents. We don't see our folks, talk to our folks, nor do we feel a responsibility to care for aging parents. We often have a hard time looking after our own lives, let alone caring for aging parents. Hell a lot of my peers are just waiting for their parents to die so they can inherit their parent's real estate holdings.

Instead, you better believe governments will be pushed to foot the bill. Both by the boomers who are still alive to vote for it, as well as their kids.
This post really spoke to me in many ways.

I left home at 18 years old as quickly as I could, joined the Military and haven't looked back. My parents and I don't have a strained relationship but this is because we don't really have much of a relationship to begin with.

I contrast this with my sibling who was a "#### Up" that took the better part of a decade+ to stop sucking on the tit, so to speak. They are intimately involved with their life and probably visit what feels seems like almost weekly. Every achievement of theirs, no matter what it is, is celebrated.

I could count on one hand the amount of times they've visited me in 18+ years and I can't remember the last time they actually took the time to ask me how I was? My spouse and I were joking the other day that I could have "Cured Cancer" or "Solved World Hunger" and they probably wouldn't notice 🤣.

They rolled their eyes when they found out I was leaving the CAF and moving on to attempt to see if I could hack it in the private sector and make some Real $$$$$.

My mother was openly critical of my decision with her biggest gripes being "why are you going to live there?", "why are you giving up a pension?" If I had a nickel for every time someone has told me I couldn't do something, well you know the rest. 😄

Needless to say our relationship is what it is but it's not my job to maintain it.
 

Remius

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I lucked out. I have breakfast once a week with my dad. On top of the normal visits with my parents. My son is very close to both sets of grandparents.

They helped me through school, work and helped me immensely after my divorce and subsequent money trouble I found myself in. They were there for every milestone and while I disappointed them by not finishing university they are proud of my military service and what I do now.

My wife and I bought a house that we could convert to take a parent in if needed. My parents were smart with their money and could afford probably some of the best in home care or LTC they can find. But my door is open to them if that should ever happen.

My in laws are not as well off but we’re also smart with their money. My father in law is in a decent LTC at 3600$ a month for care. But it’s still an exercise in frustration for a variety of reasons.

My wife’s siblings are useless leeches and yes they are likely waiting for an inheritance that will likely all be spent on LTC or in home care if we take her mother in when and if that should happen.

Which brings me to that point that some people waiting to inherit from their parents might find there is not much left after all the care they may have to pay fir before they pass.
 

lenaitch

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I'm not sure PET and the Indian Act has to do with anything, particularly since the Act has been around in one form or another since 1876, but anyway . . .

A lot of demographic changes since the 1920s. Canada was much more rural with much more of the population in multi-generational family farms. Many Ontario rural municipalities still have specific zoning provisions for a lot to be severed off a farm for a 'retirement' residence. Even if they didn't come off the land, there was much less mobility back then; many more people lived and died in the same area they were born in. I'm a boomer and left home in my '20s and never looked back, and a lot of my generation did the same.

Two outliers were the war(s) and the Depression, with the Depression probably having a greater impact; at least with war, if you came back you likely came back home.

Life expectancy might have been in the '60s, but there is a greater chance they worked until the day before. How many had pensions to do otherwise? People didn't linger like they do today. Medical science has made greater strides in improving the quantity of life than it has improving the quality of life.

Immigration has introduced cultural changes with some cultures more comfortable with multi-generational living, and a lot of newer urban housing reflects that.

I'm over 70 and the wife and I have been discussing moving closer to our daughter (2 1/2 hours) so she and her husband can help us as we slide into dotage. A friend who has Parkinson's just did the same thing. Both of us are fans of MAID. We just had her dad pass at 101. He really didn't want to hang around much past 90; he was pretty much deaf, blind and bed-ridden but really didn't fit the legislation; he was just old and increasingly frail. She was his POA and it really wore her down.
 

Humphrey Bogart

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I lucked out. I have breakfast once a week with my dad. On top of the normal visits with my parents. My son is very close to both sets of grandparents.

They helped me through school, work and helped me immensely after my divorce and subsequent money trouble I found myself in. They were there for every milestone and while I disappointed them by not finishing university they are proud of my military service and what I do now.

My wife and I bought a house that we could convert to take a parent in if needed. My parents were smart with their money and could afford probably some of the best in home care or LTC they can find. But my door is open to them if that should ever happen.

My in laws are not as well off but we’re also smart with their money. My father in law is in a decent LTC at 3600$ a month for care. But it’s still an exercise in frustration for a variety of reasons.

My wife’s siblings are useless leeches and yes they are likely waiting for an inheritance that will likely all be spent on LTC or in home care if we take her mother in when and if that should happen.

Which brings me to that point that some people waiting to inherit from their parents might find there is not much left after all the care they may have to pay fir before they pass.
My grand parents were both this way and tbh, I have always looked up to my two grand father's who both worked their butts off but had a lot to show for it.

I have one grand parent left and he put himself in probably the top nursing home in Atlantic Canada because he could afford to. They have a state of the art palliative care ward but you have to start in their retirement community to access it.

This goes back to that whole part about personal responsibility though. He is paying for that care with his hard earned money, not the State. My other grand parents died in their own home. They paid for full time care there right up to the moment they passed.
 
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