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Veterans Affairs says worker ‘inappropriately’ discussed medically assisted death with veteran

Remius

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My grand parents were both this way and tbh, I have always looked up to my two grand father's who both worked their butts off but had a lot to show for it.

I have one grand parent left and he put himself in probably the top nursing home in Atlantic Canada because he could afford to. They have a state of the art palliative care ward but you have to start in their retirement community to access it.

This goes back to that whole part about personal responsibility though. He is paying for that care with his hard earned money, not the State. My other grand parents died in their own home. They paid for full time care there right up to the moment they passed.
Yeah, I’m not advocating the state pay for it. Unless it’s under exceptional circumstances. But we need better mechanisms to enable it. And way better oversight. Private vs not for profit seem to be light years apart with not for profit being the better option.

We give parental leave for when kids are born. I’d like to see some sort of leave to take care of one’s parents. I’ll be retired likely when my parents reach that point but for some they may still be working. Tax credits for certain things and even training for people that choose to take care of them.

Anyways, interesting discussion.
 

Furniture

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I also think that the amount of Millennials/Gen X that have come to terms with "parental divorce" is also something that is putting a lot of the Boomers in an uneasy position. A lot of people in my generational cohort (myself included) have distanced or cut ties with our parents due to strained relationships.

I would love to see the statistics on it, but anecdotally, my wife and I both, along iwth a large percentage of our friends moved far away from home to get away from our parents. We don't see our folks, talk to our folks, nor do we feel a responsibility to care for aging parents. We often have a hard time looking after our own lives, let alone caring for aging parents. Hell a lot of my peers are just waiting for their parents to die so they can inherit their parent's real estate holdings.

Instead, you better believe governments will be pushed to foot the bill. Both by the boomers who are still alive to vote for it, as well as their kids.
Wow...

I can't be the only one shocked, and concerned by this. If it really is common, we might as well spend all we can, and go out in a blaze of glory...
 

Eaglelord17

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We give parental leave for when kids are born. I’d like to see some sort of leave to take care of one’s parents. I’ll be retired likely when my parents reach that point but for some they may still be working. Tax credits for certain things and even training for people that choose to take care of them.

Anyways, interesting discussion.
The issue with that type of leave is it is indefinite, vs parental leave which can be for a easily defined length of time. Your parents might live 20 more years after you start caring for them, its unreasonable to expect a employer to retain them that long and not have them work.

A personal example my aunt ended up on leave from work when my grandmother had terminal cancer. That being said the time line was fairly defined at that point (measured in months not years).
Wow...

I can't be the only one shocked, and concerned by this. If it really is common, we might as well spend all we can, and go out in a blaze of glory...
I am of the opinion that every dollar you die with was a hour at work that you didn’t have to do. Obviously you don’t want to run out, but I hope to be able to manage it so I can have lived life to the fullest by the means I earned.
 

Remius

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The issue with that type of leave is it is indefinite, vs parental leave which can be for a easily defined length of time. Your parents might live 20 more years after you start caring for them, its unreasonable to expect a employer to retain them that long and not have them work.

A personal example my aunt ended up on leave from work when my grandmother had terminal cancer. That being said the time line was fairly defined at that point (measured in months not years).

I am of the opinion that every dollar you die with was a hour at work that you didn’t have to do. Obviously you don’t want to run out, but I hope to be able to manage it so I can have lived life to the fullest by the means I earned.
Of course not. But a year with an option to extend by something like we do with with parental now. Or something similar. There can be waiting lists for LTCs and in the case of good ones there can be longer wait times. It would be more for that sort of thing until you can help get them sorted out, transitioned etc.
 

The Bread Guy

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... We give parental leave for when kids are born. I’d like to see some sort of leave to take care of one’s parents. I’ll be retired likely when my parents reach that point but for some they may still be working. Tax credits for certain things and even training for people that choose to take care of them ...
In Italy, the government provides money directly to families to hire live in help if they can't take care of parents themselves.
 

Edward Campbell

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I kept both my late Mother and my late wife "at home," using, first, my late Mother's (not small) savings and then those of my wife and I to pay for private duty nurses. When my late wife died (about 10 years ago) the daily cost of home care was running around $500.00+.

In both cases I could have found "doing term care" that was more economical but there was always a severe shortage of facilities into which I would put either of them and they cost $5,000.00/month in the 2000s and 2010s. The available places were, in my opinion, warehouses, and so I spent more to do the job - my responsibility to my family (I don't give a fiddler's f_ck about society) - properly.

Luckily, my Mother spent only a very few of he last days in hospital (critical care - ruptured aneurysm) and then a few more (less than 5) in a wonderful hospice. My wife was in her own bed until less than 60 hours before she died.

I agree that care for our families is, ultimately, a family responsibility. But too many families cannot afford anything like an adequate standard of care for their loved ones, or even for their not-so-loved ones. The solution is NOT to conscript home care workers.

I'm not sure what the right solution is BUT I am 100% certain that Canada's health care system, especially the part dealing with chronic care, is FUBAR.
 

KevinB

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When my wife and I had this house built - her mother was coming to live with it. I sacrificed a large vault to allow for the MIL to have a sitting room, (on top of her en-suite and basement walk out bedroom.)

But I’m not totally Mr Endless Charity — as I wanted my kids to understand that it is their duty to take care of their parents at a certain point in time. Also me being 13yrs older than my wife means she will probably outlive me - and I want to ensure the kids know what is expected.
 

Edward Campbell

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When my wife and I had this house built - her mother was coming to live with it. I sacrificed a large vault to allow for the MIL to have a sitting room, (on top of her en-suite and basement walk out bedroom.)

But I’m not totally Mr Endless Charity — as I wanted my kids to understand that it is their duty to take care of their parents at a certain point in time. Also me being 13yrs older than my wife means she will probably outlive me - and I want to ensure the kids know what is expected.
Bingo!
 

mariomike

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Government does not care if you die, only how and when. About 7 years after retiring is perfect for them.

It's a numbers game. I retired the day I maxed-out at 70%. That was over 13 years ago.
My mother is 22 years older than me, and still active. My father was still golfing, and travelling the world, until almost 80, so who knows?

At my pre-retirement OMERS seminar, the instructor mentioned an attractive woman who had a fondness for old, as in very old, and very single / widowed policemen. As her six ( 6 ) spouses died off, she accumulated survivors pensions ( 66 2/3% ) for each one of them!
 

The Bread Guy

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... I wanted my kids to understand that it is their duty to take care of their parents at a certain point in time ...
Good point - and that's something that's not all that North American an attitude these days, hence the pressure on the system.
 

mariomike

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Used to be not uncommon to see hospital beds set up in living rooms. Even saw an iron lung in one parlour.

I think it was typical to even have the wake in the front parlour, back in the day.
 

kev994

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At my pre-retirement OMERS seminar, the instructor mentioned an attractive woman who had a fondness for old, as in very old, and very single / widowed policemen. As her six ( 6 ) spouses died off, she accumulated survivors pensions ( 66 2/3% ) for each one of them!
Pretty good ROI if you can get it
 

Good2Golf

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Good point - and that's something that's not all that North American an attitude these days, hence the pressure on the system.
Definitely more Asian and European. Everyone has a place on the spectrum of sense of duty to care…’À chacun son propre goût.’ Personally, I may fit in the ‘more duty/obligation/desire to care’ side of things, helping my MIL move to be closer to my wife and me, and a pending transition of my parents from independent living to some blend of assistance as my dad is affected progressively with dementia, but it’s not in a transactional sense of ‘I had a good childhood so I owe it to them,’ but rather a ‘they’re good people and deserve some compassion in their older years,’ so even though they have the means to fully self-care, that doesn’t mean I don’t feel as though I shouldn’t participate in helping them during the later phases of their lives.
 

OldSolduer

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We are an aging population. Many of us have never taken welfare or EI. Where does family responsibility end and the system then takes over?
Another point - at what cost?
Medical science can keep a person alive for a very long time and it’s not always a good thing.

Third - I’m on a roll - the “system “ isn’t a system anymore. It’s an industry. It’s a money maker for all kinds of businesses.
 

PMedMoe

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I think something that many have overlooked here is the medical care. No everyone is equipped to look after an elderly parent who requires special care. My mother was paralyzed on one side after a series of mini-strokes. None of us could have looked after her properly.
 

Good2Golf

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I think something that many have overlooked here is the medical care. No everyone is equipped to look after an elderly parent who requires special care. My mother was paralyzed on one side after a series of mini-strokes. None of us could have looked after her properly.
It can escalate quickly, that’s for sure. Doing some ‘recce’ for potential spectrum of care for my Dad and the estimate is not insignificant.
 

brihard

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Damn, I'd missed this conversation til now.

Very brief bit on the MAiD / VAC thing- several of you know my interest in mental health and that I did some minor work in that realm and with VAC a few years back. I have zero belief that this foulup in any reflected anything deliberate or even wilful on the part of the department. I think this was one worker who went rogue and needs to be very seriously sorted out. I'm not naive enough to think that they'll successfully fire a public servant for this, but this is a major performance issue.

That said- and now you get to indulge my law nerd side; I did a course that focused on the evolution of the law of MAiD just earlier this summer - MAiD is a process that isn't a quick an easy thing to commit to. Two physicians/nurse practitioners have to sign off on a request and must be confident as to the patient's competence and voluntariness. As of yet, MAiD is not available for purely psychiatric disorders; e.g., someone with treatment resistance depression whose suffering is unbearable and whose condition is irremediable. We may see that change next year, but at present there needs to be a grievous and irremediable physical health condition. Anyone potentially looking at MAiD will be considering opting in to a system that has quite a number of checks and balances. It is not a flawless system, but it's also not one where some VAC worker or social worker or whatnot will in any way be able to effect the administration of medically assisted death. IMHO, anyone in such a social services role needs to, as part of their standard of practice, NOT bring it up. That should be a conversation only with those medical practitioners (MDs, NPs)who are qualified to sign off on the process.


Elder care: Tough one; we see different values in different families and cultures. Some people will be brought up with an absolute filial duty to parents. We see a lot of that in Asian cultures as a cultural norm. Among European cultures it seems more hit or miss. I've been overall pretty lucky- some fractured family relationships earlier on, but I'm on good terms with my dad - 35 year CAF pension, so he's good - and excellent terms with my mom. She went through very hard times early in life and into adulthood; crashed hard with mental health issues when I was a young adult, doing much better now, but economically she and my stepdad are completely dependent on his provincial disability (she's mostly a caregiver), and he's got at best a year left with cancer. She rarely worked and won't have any meaningful CPP even when she hits 65. I'm trying to wrap my ahead around OAS/GIS survivor benefits once he passes, but her financial outlook, independently, is grim. If, hypothetically, she was truly 'on her own', she'd be in a really bad spot. As it is she has a good roof over her head in a safe neighbourhood and groceries to her door whenever she needs them because of her relationship with me and the economic success I've had. I've determined that I'll look after her, and my wife is very much on side (and largely responsible for us being able to provide that roof).

But that's where our system is at. People are living longer, and many don't have strong pensions, assets, or savings that allow them security into old age. Those who don't are basically hoping that A) they have kids with the means to help them and B) their kids are willing to help them. Poor relationships mean many will not be able to depend on that.

I think something that many have overlooked here is the medical care. No everyone is equipped to look after an elderly parent who requires special care. My mother was paralyzed on one side after a series of mini-strokes. None of us could have looked after her properly.

Yup, and then on top of it all, there's this. An elderly parent who is oriented, capable, and self-propelled is one thing. Anyone who's dependent on continuous care is going to be another matter entirely. Which, interestingly, brings us back to MAiD. Some of the research out of jurisdictions that have had it longer have found that this feeling of not contributing, and of being a burden on family is definitely correlated with higher MAiD access, particularly among women. There's hypothesis that this may correlate with expectations traditionally placed on women that they be the caregivers, not the care-consumers. More generally, MAiD may be accessible to those whose medical conditions are bad enough to qualify, but whose primary motivation may actually still be simply feeling useless, burdensome, or hopeless.

Some interesting data and breakdowns on MAiD in Canada from 2021 here. There were over 10,000 assisted deaths last year.

 

Colin Parkinson

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It's a numbers game. I retired the day I maxed-out at 70%. That was over 13 years ago.
My mother is 22 years older than me, and still active. My father was still golfing, and travelling the world, until almost 80, so who knows?

At my pre-retirement OMERS seminar, the instructor mentioned an attractive woman who had a fondness for old, as in very old, and very single / widowed policemen. As her six ( 6 ) spouses died off, she accumulated survivors pensions ( 66 2/3% ) for each one of them!
I bet she uses the funeral attended by his ex- police buddies to select her next mate.
 

rmc_wannabe

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Wow...

I can't be the only one shocked, and concerned by this. If it really is common, we might as well spend all we can, and go out in a blaze of glory...
Not meant to be shocking or heartless. There is a history behind my reasoning that I won't really discuss in a public forum.

In my experience, a lot of Bommers have already done what you describe. Early boomers are now realizing that their homes were over valued, their nest eggs (if they had any) didn't yield much because if the low low interest rates, and now they're reaping the benefits of fiscal conservatism in the public healthcare and LTCF arenas.
 
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